Ringo Remembers (1981)

 

Ringo Remembers

By Claudia Dreifus

Printed in Newsday (for LI)

May 10, 1981

    The first thing one notices about Ringo Starr, 40, the ex-Beatle drummer turned movie actor, is that, yes, indeed, the man does wear rings —gold rings, diamond rings, and expensive rings. Star (also known as Richard Starkey) was in New York on a recent afternoon to promote his newest movie, a comedy called Caveman. He stayed in a suite at the Plaza Hotel in New York and was surrounded by security guards, much like a visiting head of state. That Ringo should travel with a few bodyguards is hardly surprising. Ever since the murder of John Lennon, all of the ex-Beatles have developed a strong interest in personal security, but Ringo Starr didn't want to talk about that. Instead, he wanted to chat about Caveman, his forthcoming record, album, Can't Fight Lightning, and his love for his fiancée, the actress Barbara Bach. (Throughout the interview, Miss Bach languished in an adjoining room. She had contracted a case of food poisoning while in New York. )

    So Starr talked about Caveman, and he was very intense about it. He said he thinks of Caveman, his first starring movie, as a new beginning. Ever since the breakup of the Beatles 10 years ago, he has had a rough time forging a separate career for himself. Although he has cut some hit solo records and had featured parts in a few films, the public still sees him as a lovable mop-top from Help!. 

    "I wish people understood that my life now is as interesting as my past." He told the LI interviewer, Ringo now lives in Monte Carlo and Los Angeles with Barbara Bach, whom he said he intends to marry soon. He is the father of three children from a previous marriage to Maureen Cox. Shortly after this interview, he was sued for $5 million by model Nancy Andrews, who claimed that he had lived with her for six years and promised to marry her before taking up with Barbara Bach. 

Question:   Does one call you Ringo or Richard Starkey?

Ringo Starr:  Yes.

Q: Oh, good. Well, now that we have that settled, let me ask you some questions. In the Playboy interview of John Lennon, he said of you, Ringo, "Was a star in his own right in Liverpool before we even met, he was a professional drummer, and he was in one of the top groups in Britain, but especially in Liverpool, before we even had a drummer. So Ringo's talent would have come out one way or the other, as something or another. I don't know what he would have ended up as, but whatever that spark is in Ringo that we all know but can't put our finger on, whatever it is, acting, drumming or singing, I don't know there's something in him that is projectable and would have surfaced with or without the Beatles."

     Do you agree with John Lennon's assessment of you?

Starr: Yeah, even if I'd never been a Beatle, I would have been something. What I don't know is what. John was relating to was that before I joined the group, in my own way, I was a star in Liverpool. I was well known and well-liked there. I was in bands there. 

Q: Did you ever wonder what would have become of your life if, in 1962, you hadn't been asked to replace the Beatles' previous drummer? You would not become one of the most famous people on the face of the earth? 

Starr:  No. No. I never think about that. It's hard to say what would have become of me. Usually, I put it down to the musical level. No matter what, I would still have been playing the drums. As for being one of the four most famous people on the face of the earth. That's something that Richard Lester (the film director who made A Hard Day's Night and Help!) once told me.  I didn't know it. I just heard gossip. He said, "You're one of the 12 most recognized people in the world." It was a mind-blower. I knew we were popular. I was astonished at the time.

Q:  The extreme fame you experienced. Was it disorientating?

Starr:  When you are that well-known, you grow with it. Most of it was fun. All of it wasn't fun.

 Q: What wasn't fun? 

Starr: Getting up in the morning, living in hotels, constant moving, and barricades, putting yourself in cages. But we didn't do that for so many years. That was only three or four out of our lives. During the years we were touring, I never saw half the countries we went to 

Q:  Can we go back a few steps and talk about your childhood in Liverpool? Liverpool is in England what the South Bronx is to New York, a hopeless slum that hardly anyone ever escapes.

Starr:  I remember from the age of 13 on, even before that, saying to myself, "I'm going to get out of here." Oh, my family was in Liverpool. I wasn't going to get away from there. My main aim was to get somewhere with a garden. You know, we lived in a working-class area in tiny boxes. I  always had this conscious thought, "I want to get somewhere with a garden." Liverpool is very dark. It's a seaport. There was a lot of TB in those days, which I caught. It's not the cleanest town, Liverpool. TB was an epidemic in our area of town. There were always people waiting in their living rooms to die. There was no cure for TB then, and people used to put the sick in the living room so they could look out the window and wait to die. It took some people years to die, but they found a cure for TB, when I got it so I was okay.

 Q: In England in the late 1950s, being a working-class kid from Liverpool was something like being Black in the United States; you just didn't escape from your ghetto.

Starr:  Well, I saw my opportunity in being a musician. Before that, I was an apprentice engineer. Then I started playing in bands at night. That was my way out, leaving. You know, it's easy to leave, but you have to have a job. If I wanted to leave, I could have gotten on a bus or walked out of Liverpool, but I wanted to get out in a different way. One thing about the Beatles, I think we were instrumental in breaking down the class barriers of England. We made it, yes, but at the same time that we were getting popular, you began to see plays where people were talking, and they didn't have upper-class accents. You know, people were doing plays and talking normal, oh, people were trying to break the class barriers before us. We weren't the only ones, but it was the time and the place, and we just happened to fetch the music alive out of it. The changes weren't just in music, but also in the fashions. All was crazy in England for a while; movies like Tom Jones started coming out. It was all a part of the class system breaking down. Finally, it got to the point where you could go to a restaurant in London and ask for egg and chips, and they treat you like some customer instead of some halfwit.

 Q: Getting back to John Lennon's Playboy interview, one of the things he said was that people were always underrating you as a drummer.

Starr: That's right, I was always underrated as one of the Beatles. It was always thought that I was in the background with those "funny fills", as the press used to call them. Well, those "funny fills" are my art. No one can do those fills like I do.

 Q: What is a fill?

Starr:  It's when the drummer goes, dud, dud, dud, dud. When you're not playing the tempo. When you're filling in the gaps. I had this weird style of playing them, and it confused a lot of people. The traditional drummer is supposed to be very busy and hitting everything at the beginning. When the press used to say that about me, I used to get really upset. "How dare they say, I can't play?" Then I realized I'm a fine drummer. I'm probably one of the best rock drummers in the world. Oh, there were all kinds of rumors. One rumor was that I never played on a record, all that kind of madness. Well, if I wasn't playing, what was I doing? Then there was a rumor that I never played drums at all. So then I thought, "Well, at least 60,000 people saw me play the drums at Shea Stadium."

Q:  It is said that of all the Beatles, it was you who had the hardest time adjusting to the 1970 breakup of the group.

 Starr:  I sat in my garden for a year. I had a garden by then. It was tough. What was I going to do with my life? I've been playing music for 12 years. I'd been with the group for eight years, and then we decided that's the end of it. No one person broke the group up. It was a mutual decision. We were all spreading ourselves thin. The dedication had gone out of things. Instead, the dedication would come in the solo work, John's album, Paul's album, we weren't supporting the main Beatle creation. On Abbey Road, no one finished the songs. Most of the second side is just bits of songs. It'd become like a job. John had to write so many songs, and Paul had to write so many songs. Meanwhile, everyone wanted to work on their own album.

 Q: There's a book on the breakup of the Beatles by Peter McCabe, Apple to the Core, that suggests one reason you split was because of bitterness about finances. The Beatles were making a lot of money, but you guys didn't see that much of it.

Starr: Finances? We were making very good money, we could have made better money. But then this company (Apple), which the Beatles formed, our idea was that if people had a reasonable idea of what they wanted to do, the Beatles would finance their efforts. One guy wanted to be a puppeteer on the beach, and we subsidized him for a while. We used to give people camera equipment. Some guys wanted to make a film, and we gave them everything. Then the guys would not follow through. We were let down a lot. We were ripped off a lot. They were stealing everything out of the Apple offices. They were sealing the lead off the roof. Typewriters went every day. Apple disillusioned all of us. 

Q: Let's get back to your year in your garden after the breakup.

Starr: Well, I was 30. I had everything going for me. Unlike the others, I wasn't a songwriter or a producer. I could make solo records. I could make movies, but I didn't know which way to go. I kept wondering and thinking, and the more I did that, the more I kept getting into a bigger mess mentally. In the end, you just have to get off your arse and do something, which is what I did. I made an album. Then, at least I was moving. Then I flew to Nashville and did an album there. Then, in 1974, I did the Ringo album, and that was very big for me. After that, every year I made an album. We had a couple of big ones, but after a while, the album-making was like a job. So I stopped for two years.  I felt I was doing it for doing it's sake. Last year I made a new one because I had some new ideas of what I wanted to do that comes out this June. It's called Can't Fight Lightning.

Q: To change the subject, can we talk a little about John Lennon? I remember watching the television news the day after Lennon's murder, and seeing you and your fiancée, Barbara Bach, going into the Dakota apartments to see Yoko Ono, fans were grabbing at your hair and your body. I watched that and thought to myself, "This must be the worst moment in that man's life."

Starr: Well, you know, it's a crowd. In any crowd, you're liable to have some people go over the edge and start grabbing .but I was disgusted-- not with the idea that they were there, with the fact that you had a lot of dumbos in the crowd all shouting at Yoko. She really didn't want to deal with it at the time, the next day after John's death. But they were all shouting, "Come out, Yoko", and "We want to see Sean!"  I thought it would have been nicer if they had kept quiet.

 Q:  Were you frightened when they started grabbing you?

Starr:  I was. Some of the crowd was very good. Some of them kept the others off. They noticed. They thought "We have a couple of halfwits here, and that's not why we're here". So that's why I can't put the whole crowd down. It was not so much fright. It was shock because of the attitude. It was like a circus.

 Q: Of all the ex-Beatles, you were the only one who went to Yoko in that moment. 

Starr: Yes, but that's because of where we were. We were on holiday. I don't know what we would have done if we were at home. When something like that happens, you have to do something. Everybody does something. Barbara and I had to come back to America from our holiday in order to go home to Los Angeles. Barbara and I both wanted to go see the man's wife. We just wanted to say "Hello. If you need anything, we're in New York for the next 24 hours. " Neither of us wanted to stay in that town for too long. 

Q: How did Yoko feel about your visit?

Starr: Well, I think mainly it was better that we came up for Sean. Sean was wondering what was going on, and Yoko was distressed-- as you can imagine.

 Q: You never disliked Yoko in the way that the other Beatles did.

Starr:   No, I always had a good relationship with Yoko. I've always liked the woman. I always felt she was strong, and I always loved her when she used to do her art exhibitions. I liked that craziness about her. She was good for John because she had these crazy ideas, too. You want to know what Yoko is like? Most people wake up in the morning and say, "You know, wouldn't it be crazy if we had an exhibition of cups and saucers?" Well, the rest of the world would hold back and say, "No, that's too silly". Well, Yoko is the only person who'd have a whole exhibition of cups and saucers. Now, everyone would go and have a laugh, and a good time was had by all.

Q: You were never as critical as others were of John and Yoko's extreme togetherness. 

Starr: Well, I understood it. At first it was a bit weird that she was sitting on the amp. That's the famous quote, "She's sitting on the amp in the studio. What is she doing?" I spoke to John once, and he said, "You go tell your wife at the end of the day and tell her what you've done in four sentences, but you've lived a whole day.  This way, we know exactly what the other one is doing. That's how Barbara and I now live our lives. We're together all the time. The only reason she's not here now is because she's sick. I'll  have to go and tell Barbara later about this interview.

Q:  When was the last time you saw John Lennon?

Starr: November 15, 1980, he was very upbeat; his album was on the charts. He was excited. I think that's why his murder came about. For five years, you didn't hear too much about John. Suddenly, he's on every magazine cover promoting his album The same way I'm promoting this movie Caveman. I have no idea what that guy was thinking. He just goes and buys a gun and comes up and shoots a man, and then he stands there. Aren't they still testing him? We don't know much about him.

 Q:  There are wall posters all around New York suggesting that Lennon's death might have been a political murder. What do you think?

Starr: You hear a lot of rumors. I don't know anyway. Did you like the movie? Do you like Caveman? Let's brighten this up a little.

 Q:  Do you feel personally less safe since Lennon's murder?

 Starr: Yes, of course. You know, till then, it never entered my head that such a thing could happen, or John's, or anyone's. No one ever thought we would have a rock and roll assassination. Presidents are okay, and kings and things like that, but John? We've lost some fine musicians to their own craziness, besides jumping out of windows and dope.  But now, even rock groups that go on the road are looked after, and so are we. Nobody feels safe anymore. 

Q: Before John Lennon's death, you used to say that because you survived. TB, you were a fatalist. Are you still now? Lennon's death  after all, wasn't exactly...

Starr:  ... An act of fate? No, it wasn't. I'm still basically a fatalist. I still believe I'm going to be here for a long time, but now I'd rather secure the position.

 Q: As you talk, I hear the voice of a man who's more a survivor than a fatalist.

 Starr: Well, I had help all the time. I had three brothers who helped me through the madness of the '60s.

 Q: You talk about the '60s as if they were a negative thing.

 Starr: No, I don't. It's only negative to a person promoting the future. And I'm constantly asked about the past. Everyone knows the story. It's not negative. I enjoyed the 60s, but it's over. That part is done. I'm doing something new.  I'm appearing in my first starring movie. In all honesty, I would prefer to talk about what's new. Now, I know you can't help it. There's not one journalist who I've met lately who hasn't asked me Beatle and John questions. They skirt over the movie, and the movie is why I'm here. We had a young interviewer come here, and she asked everything but the Beatles. And she was fabulous. She didn't relate to the Beatles. She knew about it, but she was more interested in relating to today. 

Q: Perhaps a problem for you is that you never escape being a symbol of the '60s. That must be hard on you.

Starr:  The only time people get upset is when you don't live up to their image.  I'm a symbol for myself, mainly, but everyone puts you in a little box. What they think we were like, if you've been from that, in their eyes, they get really angry that you're not supposed to live your own life. Well, I'm sorry. I have to live my life for me. If people can get behind that, fine, but I'm not going to change.

 Q: What exactly do people expect from you?

 Starr: They expect me to be a quiet and nice family man. Divorce?  I was divorced from Maureen, and it shook a lot of people up. People thought, "Most of them will get divorced, but Ringo will never get divorced." Well, just like other human beings, guess what? We got divorced.

 Q: Do you think your marriage went bad because you married too young?

Star: No, I was 25. Things change, you know? At the time, it was the marriage for me. Then it got where it didn't work out. It takes years. It didn't just finish in one day. The marriage sort of grounded to a halt over two years. Then you say, "Well, let's get divorced." But then you have children, so you go through all the madness, "I'll live in this room, and you'll live in that room, and we'll do it for the children", and you're there and you're so apologetic, trying to be married was the most apologetic madness I was ever in trying to do. But I did it for the children. Finally, I realized that the children will be all right, as long as they know that their mummy and daddy love them.

Q:  You are about to be married again. What makes your relationship with Barbara Bach different from your first marriage?

Starr:  Each relationship is different. I just don't see myself without Barbara. We met on the set of Caveman. We had met once before, but we got friendly on the film. Everyone became very good friends because we were all locked up in Durango, Mexico.  But we were just good friends. She had a boyfriend. I had a girlfriend. There was no idea that this would go down, and it didn't until two weeks before the end of the shooting. Some friends had come to Mexico, and I had a party, and Barbara and I ended up leaving the party, and then very quickly, we realized that it's more fun spending time with each other than anyone else. Since that day, the 21st of April of 1980, I haven't been without her, except for five days.

Q: The press says that two of you are fiancés. What does that mean?

Starr: We're just lovers in love. We don't have an official engagement. 

Q: Do you plan anything official or traditional? 

Starr: We plan on being married. Is that traditional anymore? It's just a statement. It's a piece of paper. It doesn't make us any more in love than we already are. But I think you have to stand up and say, "This is it!"

 Q: What makes this "it"? 

Starr:  Not wanting to be with anyone else. It's not easy for us every minute. We have our ups and downs, but the basic underlying love is there no matter how crazy. We get in a row, we both realize that we're having a row.

 Q: Since you complain that most journalists don't ask you about your current work, let me ask you about your new album. 

Starr: Well, it started in France. I'm a resident of Monte Carlo. Well, I met Paul  in France in Cannes and asked him if he'd like to produce part of my new album. And he said, "Yeah". So he wrote some songs, and he fixed the studio up in France. We did four tracks, three of them were using. One I wrote. After that I went to George and asked him, and he also agreed. I asked John, and John was up for it too. We were going to work together in January, but he didn't make it. I've got Steven Stills, Harry Nilsson, and Ronnie Wood, all friends, to do the tracks. So it's a new album, but I think it's the best album I've done in years. This one has more energy behind it, and it's called' Can't Fight Lightning. ' That's a track I wrote for Barbara, because that's how we put what happened to us. We were struck by lightning. 

Q: Do you really think so? Most love affairs are less mythical than that.

Starr:  I'm sorry, but it's nothing we expected to happen. We were both working on Cavemen, and suddenly we fell in love. It's a fairy tale.

 Q: Are you a hopeless romantic

Starr:  I'm not hopeless anymore. 

Q: As we talk, I get a picture of a man who's really quite confident about who he is. You weren't always that way. Where did the change come from? 

Starr:  It comes from living. I'm 40 years old, and I'm getting to know myself. When you're 40, you don't take what other people say so literally anymore. At one time when I see things about myself, I think if it's in black and white, it must be true.

 Q:  What's true about Ringo Starr now?

 Starr: He's such a lovable person.  He is happy. He is enjoying his life. And he is in love with a beautiful girl.