A Conversation with the Beatles Drummer (1971)

 Ringo:  A Conversation with The Beatles Drummer

By Michael Watts

Melody Maker

July 31, 1971

MW:  Musically, what are you doing now? 

RS:  Well, I'd like to get into an album when I get back, I think. At the moment, I'm working on the title song for this film, which I've written, and when I get back, I'll have to record and then take it back to Rome to fit with the film. But then I think I'd like to get into an album. It'd be like, "Don't Come Easy." One of those, --it'll be poppy.

MW:  Are you writing a lot now?

RS: I'm the king of the first verses. I get a first verse, then it takes me another year to finish it. I have a lot of tapes with bits on it, then I put them together.

MW:  Do you compose on guitar? 

RS: Yeah, Klaus is teaching me guitar. It's interesting because I played in E for the past 10 years, and now I can play all the other chords, and with not knowing, I just jump into strange chords that no one seems to get into. Most of the stuff I write is in 12-bar anyway, then I take it to my friend George, who puts in five more chords. And you all say, 'God, look at that! See the way he wrote that song with all those chords!' Ha ha ha. But I usually write it in three. 

MW: In fact, you've always written songs, haven't you? It's just that none of them have worked out so well up to the past year or so.

RS:  Yeah, right. I used to write new words to other people's tunes and never knew. I'd write, 'You Win Again by Jerry Lee Lewis, 100 times. All those Jerry Lee B-sides that I know and love, I'd write them all again. And some would say, 'But that's that'. And I'd say, 'Oh Christ!'  And I wouldn't realize.

     It's only now that I'm getting a bit original. I can write like a job. I have to be holding the guitar or sitting at the piano, and something just comes. I can't sit there and think 'Now I'm going to write'. I think John can work at it, or he can get into it quicker. I must get a flash and then work off that. If I don't get the flash, it's impossible for me. 

MW:  We spoke about sessions yesterday. How many have you done since the Beatles? 

RS:  Well, last year I played on nine albums, and I was mentioned on only three. We go through a scene because of EMI. If I play with someone, we have to have a release, or I change my name. So look out for Big Jimmy and Richie.

     I have different names every time, which is good fun for us. I've been playing with everyone lately, and it's interesting because of the styles and different guitarists. I think Klaus is, for me, the greatest bass player to play with now. Klaus and I suddenly turn into Bill and Ben. You know, we play on every session together, and Gary Wright and  errr.....Eric was fantastic to play with, but he doesn't seem to play anymore. You can put that. Maybe it'll jolt him out of it. Don't say anything more than that. 

MW:  Do you guys let BB King and Howlin' Wolf ring you up to play? Or do you volunteer? 

RS:  Yeah, people usually phone me or get me through someone they're playing with who knows me, and if I feel I can relax there, I'll play with them. I'll play with anyone you know, but I like to know at least one person there. It's hard to go into a completely 'don't-know-nobody' situation room and play. Playing is hard, and to get together is harder. 

MW: You don't think people ask you to play just because it's Ringo Starr ex-Beatle?

RS:  No, the people who call me up only want me because of the way I play, usually because of what they do. 

MW: The Howlin' Wolf sessions aren't coming out, are they?

RS: Not, from what I know. Anyway, the sessions I played on, I think we're scrappy. I only played on one night. Howlin' Wolf is great, though. He'll come around to you, singing to you all the blues. You have to get through that thing first. 'Well, look at me with Howlin' Wolf, one of the greatest blues singers of our time, and there's little old me playing with him.' 

    That scene you go through that-- something blows your mind. You know, BB, you can get closer to, because he's playing guitar. Howlin' Wolf didn't play; he just sang. Eric played guitar, and another guitarist called Charles... someone, I think, was his name, who is with Howlin' Wolf, but BB and Howlin' Wolf are no more important to me than sessions with John or George.

     No one plays rhythm like John, and I think George must be the best rock guitarist around. John has some good moments, like the slide on, 'Get Back.'  John is good lead because he's crazy. I don't know if the word is 'erratic,' but he plays lead like an amateur, yet it comes off. It's not a put-down. He plays mad things like old blues guys. 

    You know, when we did Howlin' Wolf, Eric was just--- he had this guy with him who played everything incredibly simple, but he blew Eric's mind, because Eric would never think of going that simple like my chord technique is because I don't know, it's like a child. I do it like a child. I mean, children's paintings are fantastic. 

    Zak, he does these paintings, you won't believe, and they're all doing things like something's in the air, jumping on that, and that's jumping over there against this over there, and the sun suddenly bouncing down. And people say, 'Oh, no, of course, you got to have the sun over there, and the shadow must fall to the left.' They're not into that. But that's how I play. It's just anything. 

    I think T-Rex are fantastic while I think of it, I think they're doing the best stuff now they've ever done. It's like when we went to Dylan concerts, when he brought The Band with him for the first time, and the five guys stood up in pullovers and said, 'Oh, terrible Traitor, traitor.' It gets bad when people won't allow you to do what you want to do. 

    We've created an image for them to either buy or not buy, like a loaf of bread. You like this bread or you don't like it.

   MW:   I've asked you about the albums of John and George. What about Paul's?

RS:  I feel sad with Paul's albums, because I believe he's a great artist, incredibly creative, incredibly clever, and he disappoints me on his albums. I don't think there's one tune on the last one, Ram. There's a couple of lines-- that's all. It's too tricky for me. I just feel he's wasting his time. It's just the way I feel.

     I think it's such a pity that he doesn't get in there and do what I think he can do, and I'm sure he knows he can do. He seems to be going strange. It's like he's not admitting that he can write great tunes. He wants to do a tricky, rocky thing, which he can do anyway. I mean, Paul is fantastic, but he won't admit to the nice tunes he can write. I don't know. It just seems to me that he's getting a bit ashamed of them. He's trying to have another image. He picks the image of his choice. You know, I just feel he's let me down.

MW:  You get on okay now, though, do you?

RS: It's got better. After the case, we phoned each other and talked a bit. But while we were being hassled with the court case, it was a bit strange. I just kept thinking, 'What's he doing it to me for?' But then I realized he's got to do it to get what he wants. Is the only way. So I don't put him down for it.

MW:   After the case, was there any ill feelings?

RS: Not really, the only ill feeling was that it was such a bind. It (expletive) your mind up to play a bit. You know, you get lawyers coming around all times, day and night, millions of affidavits, too many problems that I just  didn't want to do because I just wanted to play. But we had to go through it. You've got to stand up and go through these things that someone lays them on you. And we had to do that. We got a bit of cat-calling, which really wasn't right, but there's nothing you can do. Suddenly, your brain gets twisted, and you do strange things. As a person, I can't help but love him. I really can't. He's very important to me. 

MW: Do you ever see him socially now? 

RS:  No, he's always in Scotland. Mick's wedding was the last time. That was a bit strange, because we hadn't seen each other for a year, but we both knew that everything was okay. I'm not gonna ----none of us are gonna punch each other or anything like that. It was just like we hadn't seen him for a year. So it got like, 'hello,' you know, and we had to get warm together.

MW: I get the impression, though, that there was maybe one time when it would have come to blows. 

RS: No. It would never come to blows.

MW: What about the story that John and George sent you round to Paul's to ask if he'd hold the release of his albums so it wouldn't interfere with the sales of Let It Be?

RS: They didn't send me round. It's a misquote. The letters were ready there. They, as directors of that company --were all directors of different companies, wrote a letter to him, and I didn't think it fair that some office lad should take something like that round. I was in the office at the time and said, 'Give it to me.' No-- I was talking to the office, that's right, and they were telling me what was going on. And I said, 'Send it up. I'll take it round.'

     I couldn't fear him then, but he got angry because we were asking him to hold his album back. And the album was very important to him. After I left his house, I mean, it's all been said in court, as it were, he told me to get out of his house. He was crazy. He went crazy. I thought I got brought down because I couldn't believe it was happening to me. I just brought a letter. I said, 'I agree with everything that's in the letter', because we tried to work it like a company then, not as individuals. 

    I put my album out two weeks before, which makes me seem like such a good guy, but it wasn't really because I needed to put it out before--- else it would have slayed me. Paul's album, and it did. 

MW:  It's not true that he physically attacked you?

RS:  No, he just shouted and pointed at me. It's funny now. Everything gets funny two years later, but I'm very emotional. Things like that really upset me at the time. It's only like a brother. You know, you mustn't pretend that brothers don't fight because they fight worse than anybody.

MW: Can you give your version of the reason the Beatles split?

RS:  Hell, there's 100 reasons: because I left, because George left, because Yoko came in, because John left, because of the business, because suddenly we weren't thinking together. Suddenly, we had individual things to do, millions of things. They're all part of it. You know, little niggly things that crop up because we've been together for the past 10 years and suddenly wanted to do different things.

MW:  Do you think it was inevitable, since there were four strong individuals, that you split? 

RS: No, not inevitable. It only got to break up when we all decided, 'let's do other things besides the Beatles'. But I really would have liked to do individual things and the Beatles thing. The Beatles, we were a great group. We were a good group, man, and there was a lot of good ideas and a lot of good music came out of them. Individually, a lot of good stuff came out as well. But as a four, the best stuff came out. 

MW: You think, musically, that you were the best as the four Beatles, rather than the four individuals?

RS: It was good, because after 10 years, we knew how to play together. After every album, we all went on holiday and came back for the next one. We took a few weeks to get together, but it was easier because of all the years that went on before. It takes a while, like the BB sessions, the first night wasn't that good, because no one knew each other, and you couldn't get in with them.

     I play a bit crazy, and they didn't know what was happening. And the guitarist does a few things, and I'm not following him, right? So it takes a couple sessions to get into how people play, and then you play good. That's why the last night with BB was the greatest session this year. It was just incredible. It blows your mind. That's why music is important to me, just for those days. That's why I think it's more important to me than acting.

MW:  Can you say when the first cracks appeared in The Beatles setup?

RS:  I think on the White album.

MW: Was there trouble in the studio?

RS:  No, we never really argued. That was the funny thing. We always sort of held back a bit. And maybe if we argued a lot more, that wouldn't have got to the stage it got to.

MW:  Why do you say the White Album?

RS: Oh, I left on the White Album. I had to leave. I thought the other three were together, and I wasn't with them. I was separate. I was feeling down. Also, I thought I wasn't playing right. But I went round to each one and said, 'Look, I've got to leave. I can't make it.' But then each one I went to said, 'I thought it was you three, and I was on my own', so at least we cleared it up that we all were thinking a bit like that at the time.

     So we got together again, we sorted that out, and then on the Let It Be album, George had to leave because he thought Paul was dominating him. 

MW: That's evident from the movie. 

RS:  Well, he was because Michael Lindsay Hogg (director of the film) liked Paul, I would think more than the rest of us. So it's like Paul's film. Actually, it was supposed to be 25% each, and I've got about two shots. You know, I did a lot of me comedy for him. I ran around, hiding, peeping, and looting, but they never used any of it.

MW:  Let's talk about the maharishi. You were the first to break with him. Do you think he made fools of you? 

RS: No, no. I'm pleased I met the Maharishi. It's one of the nicest points in my life, meeting him. At the time I was going through a few scenes, and I believed him, and he straightened me out on a few things.

MW:  Like, what exactly? 

RS: Well, one of them was that I couldn't understand why we weren't involved with nature and animals. I really believe that we're all together in some way. The forces are all together, and suddenly all the animals are being killed. All the land is being destroyed.

MW:  You're a great believer in ecology, aren't you? 

RSL Yeah, right. I think it's important for us, but I was really brought down.  The whole world is just getting (expletive) up. And I was talking to him, and he was saying that all the forces are important together. All these trees and flowers have a purpose and can help you, and we can help each other. And we were just (expletive) it up. I was getting pretty down on it. 

    I just sit in the garden and look at the trees and think, why the (expletive) is everyone just (expletive) the place up?  If we just take a carrier bag and put all our (expletive) in it and burn it, we get rid of it. But there again, burning doesn't help (expletive). It all goes in the atmosphere, and we get no sun or something. I was just getting a bit down, and he gave me a mantra, which I'll have for the rest of my life. If things ever get too heavy, I can meditate and get out of it. 

MW: You still meditate, do you?

RS:  Not very often -- occasionally. He gave me a gift, you know, that no one can take from me ever. And I thank him for that. I'm always pleased I met him. 

MW: He was one of those people who hang around the big groups like The Beatles.

RS:  No. No one knows this, but he didn't know what the Beatles were. He was one of the few people in the world who had never heard of them. And when it was 1967, we were monsters then, and he never heard of us.

     John and George went to the first thing, I think he had a big meeting in the Hilton, a big conference, some ball----anyway---and I got back that night, and there were all these phone messages on my answering phone saying, 'Going to Bangor, you got to come. This guy is incredible.' And so I met with them in the morning, and we went to Bangor, and we got off the train. And of course, the press got us leaving London, and wired Bangor, so there's like 5000 kids there.

     And he got off the train thinking, 'Wow, I must really be getting big in Bangor!' He really thought it was for him. He was so naive.

MW: Didn't he use you, though, afterwards to further himself? 

RS:  Yes, he did after he realized, but all I'm saying is that at first, he never knew about us. When he realized that suddenly we could attract these crowds, his aim in life was to get the whole world meditating, so he thought, 'I can use them.'

     He wanted us to do a world tour and would open a camp wherever we went for meditation, because that was his life. But he never actually used us. We never did anything for him. We never paid him one penny. The only money we ever laid out was our airfare to India. We never gave him anything. 

MW:  You're not associated with mysticism anymore, then?

RS:  I really believe it. The only difference is that now it's not running my life.

MW:  How about your LSD period? Do you regret taking the dope now? 

RS:  No, I can't regret it in a total way. In certain ways, I regret it, like I wish I had gotten to that stage without it. I really think it opened my eyes a bit and opened a few passages in my brain. But I wouldn't advise anyone ever to touch it. I would never touch it again. You see, once you've taken it, there's no going back. You've done it then and gone through it. 

    So I've come through it, and my only regret is that I wouldn't have liked to get where that took me. I wouldn't like say it was very high or low, or anywhere. I would have liked to get there without any.

MW: How many trips did you take in all?

RS:   About nine.

MW: Were they all good?

RS:  Good and bad, some extremely bad, some extremely good 

MW: Did you see God as so many claim they do?

RS:  No, I can't understand that concept. You just see something that relates to what you were thinking at the time. I think that you were sure of it sometimes, it's like an answer to a question that you couldn't answer before you took it. It's back again to whether the answer is right. But I went through a lot of good scenes with it. It's mainly not enforced, not certified. What's the word I'm thinking of?

MW:  Reaffirmed? 

RS:  Yeah. Reaffirmed. Reaffirmed. A few things. For me, it opens your eyes. You know, I wouldn't like none of this in the paper, because it's one of these where maybe some kids will take the shit because of something I said. And I wouldn't like that. I'm telling you not to take it anyway. You can write that.

MW: You're not into dope of any kind, not even grass?

RS:   No. I mean, I'm into grass, just old times. But I don't want that (expletive) either. That's the thing. I want to do it by myself. It gets very hard.